How many people are still under a collective agreement?
In the Netherlands, you talk then about 80 percent of workers, that are 1.6 million people. This is relatively high compared to other countries. In 1980 in the United States 26 percent a collective agreement in the Netherlands 70 percent. In the US, that number has since been halved naar13 percent while it is actually grown in the Netherlands to 80 percent. Now you see that slightly reduced.
Are we here get American states?
Since people do not have to be very afraid. Because even if you do not have an agreement, then you fall still under the Dutch labor law. The minimum wage is therefore simply apply, as well as the dismissal.
What makes that agreement for employers so difficult?
Many employers want customization. Within collective agreements have mostly elderly acquired many rights. That sound very good, for example, that you have to work a little less about. But if you are unemployed and old worker is just annoying, because that will you not be accepted. Then give employers would rather prefer a young worker. You may have to make a 55-plus-says quite willing to be overtime, but this is difficult due to a collective agreement.
Two years ago there was a social agreement. Where is it wrong?
I think the problem really all that came before. That has to make that trade unions are mainly represented them by older workers aged over 55. Find that high wages and good working conditions are often more important than low unemployment. You can see that in many collective agreements. Companies have increasing difficulty with that.
Is this an irreversible trend?
Irreversible is virtually nothing. But if you look at other countries, notably Germany and the US, you’ll see a lot longer falling. It would not be surprising that this trend will also continue in the Netherlands me.
This also has to do with the rise of the freelancer.
Right. If you are a permanent contract is increasingly tighter, it is useful if you have a job. But as an outsider it is just difficult. Therefore many people choose to be there involuntarily for freelancers.
Does the disappearance of the collective agreement also that the unions go to the sidelines?
If you as a union is important to maintain collective bargaining, then you change them. That does offer much more flexibility. You would actually have to offer companies a kind of menus. For example if you have a lot dismissal offers to your employees, you may also offer lower wages. Or a high salary, but little severance pay. Then you will get people to self-select in the companies where they feel most at home.
But time and a high wage and a lot of security is over?
That’s over, yeah. Everyone would want to preserve that, it’s the companies that are doing very well, that can sometimes offer. But you do not want that applies to all businesses, because that means you have some companies pushing into bankruptcy if you ask to strong demand.
Which sectors will follow first?
I think the sectors that it is not going so well, containing many small business owners. For them it is very difficult to offer much security. The economy now scrambles a bit, such companies would prefer to introduce flexible employment. If the CLA is very rigorous, so high wages and employment protection, it will be that job never opened.
But for people without a job so this is a good development?
That is always so. A flexible labor market is good for the outsiders, because it means that more jobs are created. But it is bad for those who already have a job.
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